How strong is Bra?

Dr killjoy - well she was mad enough to turn SSJ. But why use more power than you need to? vegetto didnt think she was powering up very much, describing it as a "usual tantrum".
And i personally think Super Namek killed Fat Buu but is a little bit weaker than DBM SSJ3 goku right now. dunno how much he's holding back. possibly as strong as base vegetto.

Why is there "min" and "max" SSJ2? It's just SSJ2 people! And yeah, I can see U16 Bra being stronger than U18 Goku, even if he surpassed Buu saga SSJ Vegetto. And seeing Super Namek, atm, is seems he can defeat U16 Bra, but not Vegetto. But still, who knows.

Ah...no Min/max like that. For Bra, I just have my minimum and maximum guess listed, and I'm stating shes somewhere in that range.

what do you think of my huge wall of text?

I like huge wall of text.

I will try some Mathematics too.

We assume that "1" is the strength of base Goku.

So it is:

Goku: 1
Goku SSJ: 50
Goku SSJ2: 100
Goku SSJ3: 400

We will assume that Goku SJ3 = Vegeta SSJ3 = Gotenks SSJ3.
Gohan is a little stronger than Gotenks SSJ3 ( http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/Dragon-Ball-Z/unknown/304/7 ) so I will tell he is 450.

Now vegetto. For me the fusion makes base Vegetto equal to SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta. So:

Vegetto: 50
Vegetto SSJ: 2 500
Vegetto SSJ2: 5 000
Vegetto SSJ3: 20 000

And if the fusion makes base fusion equal to SSJ, we can tell that Base Gotenks = SSJ Goten or SSJ Trunks. Thus SSJ Goten or Trunks is equal to Base Goku or Vegeta. I think that it is totally possible.

Then we know that Goku SSJ3 can beat Fat Buu. So we can suppose that Fat Buu = 200 (I think Goku SSJ3 could have beat him easily if he wanted to).
And Super Buu = 300 (because Gotenks SSJ3 (and Gohan) beat him easily).
Once Gotenks absorbed, we assume that the power just add and then double: Gotenks Buu is (300 from Buu + 400 for Gotenks) X 2 = 1400.
So Gohan Buu: 1500 (because Gohan is a bit stronger than Gotenks SSJ3, so (300+450)X2 = 1500).

So SSJ Vegetto (2 500) can beat without trouble Gohan Buu (1 500).

But of course the power double only if the being absorbed is powerful enough (I assume that Vegeta is powerful enough).

So once Vegeta absorbed, Buu is (1500 + 200) X 2 = 1700 X 2 = 3400. Now with Goku SSJ3, it is (3400 + 400) X 2 = 3 800 X 2 = 7 600. Then he absorb all powerful being in the universe (not with a X 2 each time, because now nobody is powerful enough to give him the X 2) and reach something between 15 000 and 20 000.

And now, for Bra.
We can assume that she has reached SSJ3. And that her SSJ3 is not very far from SSJ Vegetto (because Vegetto never went SSJ2 against her).

So if SSJ3 Bra is 2000:

Bra: 5
Bra: 250
Bra SSJ2: 500
Bra SSJ3: 2000

So in my logic, Bra could beat Gohan Buu without trouble. SHhe is 5 time stronger than SSJ3 Goku/Gotenks at the Buu Saga.

The question is: how strong Goku, Vegeta and Gotenks have become?
I will say that they also reached 5 in base form.

So, for DBM, I think: Goku SSJ3 = Vegeta SSJ3 = Gotenks SSJ3 = Bra SSJ3.

And as I am nice, I will tell that Super Namek is also near form 2000.

Do you agree?

Good chance my Bra is more powerful than DBM Bra. I didn't give her SSj3 because the way I designed SSj3 has it with some...odd requirements.

I have her growing a little faster than her father is, so her SSj2 is between 10% weaker and 10% stronger than his SSj during the Multiverse time period. If my Bra had SSj3 during that time period, it would be...erm.

Bra: .55
Vegeto: 1
SSj Vegeto: 50
SSj2 Bra: 55
SSj3 Bra: 220
SSj3 Vegeto: 400

I say we wait and find out o 3o.

Part of the point of a discussion is discussing possibilities or ideas. ^_^

I will laugh when salagir just decides to keep her at super saiyan level

Leon wrote:Ah...no Min/max like that. For Bra, I just have my minimum and maximum guess listed, and I'm stating shes somewhere in that range.

Ahh, ok, my bad.

gotenks didnt train. its most likely hes weaker than DBM fat buu now. can he even still do ssj3? i hope so. but hes miles behind goku vegeta and bra.

Yeah. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt with minor training and / or passive growth, I'm placing him needing SSj3 to keep up with SSj Goku or Vegeta (and still losing), and just getting curb stomped by Bra.

gotenks didnt train

How do you know?

In the stupid "ten years after" (when appears stupid Uub), we can see Goku who trains pan and Goten: http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/Dragon-Ball-Z/unknown/324/2

Yes, Goku and Vegeta speak about their "Lazy child" but it does not mean that they did not train at all.

goten only started training then again because goku forced him, he implies that he didn't train before it, rather going after girls.


even if goten and trunks trained only a little, they will still be rusty as gotenks.

you know i just had a funny though, both u16 and u18 gotenks forms. but one is the fat version and the other the very thin version

both u16 and u18 gotenks forms. but one is the fat version and the other the very thin version

I laugh a lot

I really hope that it will happen ^^

between those failed fusion forms i wonder who can fight better

the fat one can only move a little before being exhausted and probaly his only attack is farting (like veku, the failed fusion dance of goku and vegeta)

the very thin one, we didn't see him do anything (in the anime)

She'll definately have a 'Daughter of freaking Vegetto' boost.

I'm guessing her SSJ is weaker but not a whole lot weaker than Gohan.

If she can go beyond that she'll be vetween Gohan and SSJ Vegetto.

she's strong, but still no where near the level of vegetto, zen buu and broly. and possible the super namek

yeah but we don't know about super namek. a better power scale would be u18 goku. i think bra is stronger but inexperienced.

I think Bra is the best

But srsly. Me thinks Bra is a LOT stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

Base Vegeto is a lot stronger than Gohan.
Gohan may have got a little stronger. Buu said he didn't LOSE any of his power, this doesn't say that he isn't stronger.
But he isn't the type to train so meh. His power is there or there abouts the level it was in the Buu saga.

Vegeto however has improved. He's had what? 17 years training? At least 17 years. It's unreal how much he would have improved.
I think it's safe to say that Base Vegeto is twice as strong as Gohan. And Bra fights SSJ Vegeto? She must be way stronger than Gohan if that is the case. What we don't know is what form does Bra train with Vegeto SSJ. Does Bra need to be SSJ2 in order to keep up with SSj Vegeto?

We have no clue as to how often she trains with/without Vegeto. Maybe even Vegeto doesn't know her full strength. (Vegeto kept his true strength from Bra)

Bra is the most underestimated fighter at this tournament, and I can't wait for her to surprise us all

SSJ3 Goku: 30
SSJ3 Vegeta: 28
SSJ3 Gotenks: 22
SSJ Pan: 15
Gohan: 29
SSJ Bra: 32
SSJ Vegeto: 9999999

Not necessarily can you give Bra the "I'm Vegetto's daughter, so I'm super strong" boost. Looking back on Z, it could go either way.

I think the best two examples would be Goten and Pan.

When Goten was conceived, Goku was pretty powerful, already in his full power ssj (assuming he and chichi got it on right before the Cell games). When Goten was a small child, he was easily able to attain SSJ and was already stronger than all of the Z fighters during the Namek arc.

When Pan was conceived, it was by Ultimate (for some reason, "mystic" seems kind of lame...) Gohan. When Pan's a small child at the end of Z, she's shown to be fairly dedicated and strong as a child, yet still doesn't have that raw power and super saiyan ability that Goten had.

Fatherwise: Gohan >> Goku.

Childwise: Goten >> Pan.

If I had to peg a PL for Goten, I would put it around Namek Vegeta during his fight with Freeza as his base, which would give an SSJ somewhat lower than what Goku achieved. For Pan, it's hard to say, but she strikes me personally as being around Goku's power at the very beginning of Z, around 500 or so. Although Pan had a stronger father, she seems to be weaker than Goten.

So Bra -could- be really powerful due to Vegetto, but I really don't see any meaningful correlation between father and child power.

As for the whole "usual tantrum" thing, I don't see it as being very meaningful. It's kind of like Gohan's whole rage thing in the beginning of Z, he got pissed off a lot. More or less, it seems that Bra actually has rage issues, and maybe just gets pissed off a lot and goes SSJ because of it. I'm sure if Gohan had his rage thing as a teenager, he would burst into SSJ just the same (and he does when Videl gets the snot kicked out of her).

Also, someone said it before, but having her get into a fit of sheer rage over Pan's death and have her supress her power at the same time is completely backwards.

As for she seemed confident in SSJ to beat Bojack, I'd say it's a natural reaction. Her niece (?) was just killed, and she wanted to revenge. Obviously, since someone so close to her died, she's gonna attack no matter what the odds are, even if Bojack is stronger. Her powering up in anger, and then fearing the fight with Bojack wouldn't make any sense. However, I'd say that she's stronger than Pan (given that she's older at least) and would have a better shot at beating him.

So, finally, breaking it all down, I'd say that SSJ Bra is (in my opinion!) around the same level as Cell Games SSJ's, although maybe slightly stronger. Pan, then, would be slightly weaker, and would explain why Bojack was able to kill her easily (remember, CG SSJ's were pretty ineffective against transformed Bojack).

Disclaimer! I'm not like a Bra-hater or anything... Just trying an objective counter-opinion!

But, in all honesty, I bet Salagir will make her strong anyways, so this post will probably have just been a waste of time

Gohan may have got a little stronger. Buu said he didn't LOSE any of his power, this doesn't say that he isn't stronger.

salagir said both gohans are the same and didnt increase at all.

Bra is the most underestimated fighter at this tournament, and I can't wait for her to surprise us all

damn straight! bra ftw!

remember goten and pan didnt train. bra obviously likes fighting and has been training for at least 10 years.

your whole point is meaningless since gohan himself had to power up just to take on "bra blowing off steam". also the quote that "dad never used ssj2, EVEN AGAINST BRA". also the fact she knows IT means she underwent some intense mental training from her father. and if she was that weak, why would she now be trying to teleport to the buu vegetto standoff? wouldnt she just be in the way?

Well, at this point, everything is only going to be speculation until we actually get some concrete evidence of how strong she is.

As for helping Vegetto with Zen Buu, I think it would make sense either way. If she actually is as strong as you guys think she is, then of course she's going to be a big help. On the other hand, if she's as strong as I speculate she might be, she still might be useful. For one, Vegetto is pretty beat up and worn out after his fight with Broly. He wasn't healed, and he didn't even have a moment to rest before going after Buu. If Bra goes after him, she can at least distract or stun Buu, or, since she's fresh, she can grab her dad and take him back to the ring if he's in critical shape.

remember goten and pan didnt train.

You're correct about Goten (we all know he got high instead of training), but you're wrong about Pan. In the "10 Years Later" chapter, Goku comments that Pan is the most dedicated one about her training. Just for some reason in U18, she hasn't reached SSJ, which, to me, is really pretty interesting given what we know about her.

And I don't think Gohan was merely powering up for the sake of Bra "blowing off steam." Already, he was starting to get angry as Pan lay in his arms dead (you can see some serious veins throbbing). Bra's rash powerup to take on Bojack just put him over the edge into (righteous) fury. I mean, his daughter was brutally killed right in front of him. Bra threatening Pan's resurrection was the last straw for Gohan. So I don't think that point is meaningless...

I'll cede you the SSJ2 quote though. Her SSJ is probably stronger than base Vegetto, and forces him to SSJ. However, I don't think her SSJ would be enough of a threat for SSJ2 (obviously). But yeah, a counter example to that one is tough

IT is one of the things that baffles me in Z. Goku is so stingy with that technique that it really pisses me off. Why not teach it to F. Trunks so that he can go to New Namek and wish his friends back? Hell, Goku could even point him in the right direction when he's teaching it to him

Anywho... She's likely the only one to train with Vegetto, since Gohan is a nerd and Goten is stoned and Uub doesn't exist. Since she's his only student, makes sense that he teaches her his techniques.

In the "10 Years Later" chapter, Goku comments that Pan is the most dedicated one about her training. Just for some reason in U18, she hasn't reached SSJ, which, to me, is really pretty interesting given what we know about her.

she was 4 years old. how much training could she really have done? and she didnt train at all from z to gt. but if you take dbm, i guess she hasnt been pushed to enough anger yet since vegetto was obviously harder on his pan than goku was on his pan.

i think its fairly obvious shes ascended to ssj2 by now. but ssj vegetto can still beat ssj2 bra.

i guess so but your wrong. they had pan too. and i bet vegetto dragged gotenks out for a bit of sparring now and then. i guess pan hasnt mastered IT. but then your right. why didnt goku teach gohan IT in the time chamber? that would have prepared him more for the cell fight.

haha yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to argue against the resident Bra-Fanboy, there's just no way I can win.

I guess one of the problems I have with Bra (and Goten, kid Trunks, and Uub) is that they didn't earn the majority of their power. They didn't have to go through all the strife and hardship that the others had to in order to become strong.

However, I like Bra in the comic. She's definitely not just a meathead or a prat like Uub. She actually has some character and emotion. And she's a damn mystery too.

Uub did too. though he wasn't in it enough for us to get to know him. Uub obviously loves his family and his mentor (rage out when he found out goku was "dead". the big difference between him and gohan is uub never gives up).

indeed bra has character and emotion, especially from the little we've seen. she seems smart too (mentioned broly to vegetto, knew he would win, knows IT) despite being brash (apparently super saiyan is "just another tantrum").