How strong is Bra?

Docter killjoy wrote:I realy don't think bra is stronger then goku.
sure she might be vegetto's daughter. but so far she hasn't shown anything then regular super saiyan.
goku has years of experience over her.

VegetaSSJ3 wrote:Teen Gohan reached SSJ2 before Goku.

And I assume that Bra is a "Gohan who like to fight".

So I really think that she could be stronger than GoKu and Vegeta. And of course than Gohan who didn't train (he is probably just as strong as he was in Buu Saga).

Docter killjoy wrote:true she is like a gohan that wants to fight. but still goku has more experience

VegetaSSJ3 wrote:Versus Cell Goku had more experience than Gohan too

If someone has other argument, don't hesitate!

as the resident bra fanboy, i think she is around ssj vegetto.

Docter killjoy wrote:
I realy don't think bra is stronger then goku.
sure she might be vegetto's daughter. but so far she hasn't shown anything then regular super saiyan.
goku has years of experience over her.

experience? we know that she has at least 10 years of training under her belt. thats twice as much as even gohan. then again gohan has been in more life or death battles. i think bra is quite rash and overconfident, but she still has an emormous well of power. so far she hasnt NEEDED to show anything further than ssj1.

gohan : dad hasnt used the second level against anyone, even against bra.

needless to say, she IS vegetto's daughter and inherited his love of fighting and ambition to get stronger, unlike other hybrids. we havn't seen a child of a fusion before. her powers could be various. we already know she has instantaneous movement (instant transmission for the dubbies), as well as ssj1. maybe you think shes not as powerful as her brother gohan because no one reacted to her rage. i say bra wasnt even beginning to show off her true power in ssj1. she doubtless has ssj2 and possibly has potential to ascend even further. a cool form would be "false ssj3" where her hair gets a little longer, and she loses her eyebrows, but lacks the power of a fully ascended saiyan. the aura would be more flared and incomplete. just a thought. anyway we really only know two main things in regards to her power. 1. vegetto used ssj against her, and its implied shes surpassed gohan. he was stated as having not improved nor decreased in power by zen buu. 2. children of super saiyans are incredibly powerful and practically born with ssj. bra is the daughter of a being formed by magic fusing two super saiyans together. i say shes godly compared to the other female fighters, and most of the other saiyans. goku could tangle with her due to his skills and experience but imo hes outmatched in the area of power and speed.

you make her sound like a mary sue

10 years of training more then gohan?

how old is she? 16 years mabey

gohan is around 33

even with times of peace, gohan still trained more then she did.

now that idea of a false ssj3 sounds abit like with the lord slug movie. where goku used false ssj (his hair whent up but stayed black and he had a gold aura) but his energy was drained very very quickly when he used that.

gohan after cell never trained any further, canonical. and he started at the age of 5. he was around 11 when he destroyed cell. so he has 6 years of intense fights and training.

bra has:

born from vegetto and bulma
probably trained since the age of 6 and is now 16 = 10 years of training (wasnt that confirmed in the french novel thingy?)

so not only does she have a head start of being the daughter of vegetto, who basically is the new supreme kai like god of his universe (salagir said so), but she also has more years of training under her belt. training with vegetto. who used (either was forced to or wanted to test her) ssj against her.

in my book, she surpasses gohan, even if she is only in ssj. in the pan killing incident she merely started to power up, due to her rage. gohan on the other hand went full out in an instant, fueled by fatherly rage. also her body probably can contain far more power than others, before the environment actually starts to feel the effects of the power up.

i say she is at least as strong as gohan is, when she is powered up to the fullest. she might go ssj2 for the first time, when she sees vegetto in danger against buu.

I have to agree with syrias. At SSJ, she's probably equal to Gohan. At any further level, she likely outlcass him, and almost everyone else.

lets see. one year with piccolo. 2 weeks of fighting and zenkais on namek. 3 years for the androids, 1 year in the time chamber, about a day on the supreme kai's world. thats it. 5 years.
bra is 16 and probably started when she was around 4-6. at least 10 years. enough time to catch up to her ssj father. and yes i agree that she can hold way more power and potential. she isnt a mary sue as she has flaws (brash, quick to anger, inexperienced) and isnt that important to the story yet. you wanna call anyone gary stu, i say vegetto and broly. especially broly.

and yes i got the idea from the false ssj in lord slug. goku wasnt quite full ssj yet so he went a "trying to become ssj" form. kinda like broly's restricted blue haired ssj. my idea was that she isnt there yet but has the capability due to being practically half a fusion. gotenks could do it, and shes the offspring of an even more powerful magic fusion.

You know i just had the thought of the super namek vs bra

the namek seems like a calm and collected guy. bra prone to anger
it will be funny to see her rage but unable to do any real damage to him. and he just keeps calm and blocks her attacks.

it will be funny to see her rage but unable to do any real damage to him. and he just keeps calm and blocks her attacks.

she would own him probably i think they actually might be evenly matched.

i think the namek would sooner own her then reverse.
but it would be more likely if they are even in power

the namek is implied to having faced all the badguys the u18 z warriors have. alone. without training any further, since he would not have a trunks warning him and so on. still he beat dabura and buu. without something like the deus ex genki machine dama.

he probably is far above a ssj3goku or mystic gohan. id say he might even border on vegettos power. after all piccolo with x power fused with 42k power nail, resulting in a piccolo that could face freeza successfully for a time. and that was just a single namek fusing into piccolo.

now lets imagine "piccolo" and nail grew up together and later on formed the basis for the super namek. piccolo would then be as strong as nail roughly and their fusion would result in a far stronger namek than u18nail and piccolo became.(because there is no way that king kai had piccolo gain so much power in that short time).

this namek would then fuse with one of the remaining nameks, gaining the fusion multiplier and the base power of the fusee. this goes on for at least 100 nameks.

he can easily border on vegetto, imo.

tue the namekian fusion gives a much larger increase in power then the fusion dance or patora earings.

He could well be equal to super buu and vegetto

without training any further

how do you know? really we wont know all this until we read the U7 special.

remember that nail and piccolo were the strongest ever namekians. naturally a fusion (probs piccolo's power x nails) would be the strongest possible namekian fusion apart from kami reuniting back with piccolo. considering the rest of the nameks are only around 2000 in power level....

i think he had a hard time beating buu in an epic battle. but he would still train. he wouldnt think his "super fusion" would be his limit. we havnt seen much of him so we really wont know until his special and coming fights.

Ussj Future Trunks wrote:
i think he had a hard time beating buu in an epic battle. but he would still train. he wouldnt think his "super fusion" would be his limit. we havnt seen much of him so we really wont know until his special and coming fights.

lol talk about double standards.

you keep claiming stuf about bra being able to do this and that.
but when it's about another character, you say "we haven't seen much of him so we don't know what he can do"

um everything ive said about bra is speculation too. i could be wrong. i dont pretend to know everything. bra is more prominent than super namek though. we know more about her and her abilities. thats really what im saying. lets just wait and see if we are right or wrong.

well the supernamek should be really strong for the following reason (which is my opinion)

nail fusing into piccolo lifted the resulting namek to over 1.000.000 in power.

nail had about 42.000 in power levels.

piccolo when dying had about 3.500. he likely got to about 4.500 in the few days he had at king kais planet (based on how much power goku got in a year, which is not that accurate but works for this assumption, since we will never know the exact numbers)


now how did he get to just over 1.000.000?

piccolo X nail or piccolo + nail doesnt work


42.000 X 4.500 =189.000.000 , which is higher than goku went when he became SSJ. doesnt work.

42.000 + 4.500 = 46.500 , doesnt work either because he would be far to weak to battle freeza second form.

piccolo fusing with nail has to have a multiplier of sorts involved. or a static power boost whenever a namek fuses with a namek. i think ill go with a multiplier (feel free to go with a 900.000 static boost on top of multiplying nail with piccolo, in a reply to this, if you want )

so we have piccolo and nails power added up (because thats what happens in my opinion.) this has to be multiplied in order to reach 1.000.000+

46.500*X=1000.000 (rounded to just the million for the calculation)

X would be about 21 in this case.

the question that is left is, "does every namek fusion do that?" my answer is "probably, but maybe the potency of the multiplier varies a little. the namek elder said piccolo fusing with kami would result in a warrior that could beat freeza easily. this leads me to believe the fusion of kami and piccolo alone would have been equal to namek ssj goku or at least near him. that would imply the multiplier for piccolo and kami becoming one again would be really great of a number. (kami around kid gokus level if im not mistaken + piccolos 4.500... going to 1.000.000 or even 150.000.000? high multiplier O.O) piccolo fusing with nail mostlikely only had a "normal" multiplier which in would have to be applied to ALL namek fusions, maybe varying between 15 and 21 (actually i think its more in the range of 19 to 22 but whatever) for fusions that are not "1 namek that split up becoming one again".

if im not mistaken, there are 108 nameks on namek when freezas troops start killing people.
Nail is one of them. 107 left.

now even if nail is the only one with a high power level and all others are about 5 to 10 (which isnt the case as evidenced by the namek warriors wo appear to fight freezas troops. if nail were so much above them, they would just look to him to be their planets unbeatable superman. also there is guru, who has to have al ot of ki, which in turn would be "power levels" once a warrior namek gets it.) it would look like this if he fused with every single one of them

Nail:x
Namek he fuses with: y
varying multiplier:z

(x+y)*z

ok, first namek is fused into nail

(42.000+10)*15= 630.150

second namek is fused into nail(fused)

(630.150+10)*15= 9.452.400

third namek fuses into nail(fused)

(9.452.400+10)*15= 141.786.150


were close to namek ssj goku now and there are still 104 nameks to go, one of which is guru who is guaranteed to have a higher power level (ki energy actually) but we will disregard him.

the endresult of the mass fusion, if all 107 nameks had a power of 10 only and the multiplier would be "only" 15 would be

29.182.653.906.962.400.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000

i dont think there even is a word for that number. now even if most nameks would only give 1 power level and the multiplier was 5 instead of 15... he would still be ridiculously strong:

25.885.268.824.542.200.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000

now lets compare vegetto to that (to get an idea how strong bra should be, since she has to be about his ssj in power, as the manga and novel are indicating)

for this we may assume that by the time they fuse, both goku and vegeta reached about 150.000.000 (gokus ssj on namek) in base power, i for one think that is to much but lets go with it anyway. i dont want to come off as "pro namek/anti bra" here)

now some guide that is widely accepted says potara and dance fusion is "AxB"

so here we have 150.000.000x150.000.000=22.500.000.000.000.000

base vegetto:22.500.000.000.000.000
ssj vegetto: 22.500.000.000.000.000x50=1.125.000.000.000.000.000

now i assume that vegetto never had a useful training partner until bra was old enough and as such did not greatly increase his power (other than unlocking ssj2 and ssj3, which he might have had in the buu arc already, that part is uncertain). i think that is logical.

so for bra, this means her ssj is somwhere in the range between

22.500.000.000.000.000 and 1.125.000.000.000.000.000. thats all we can say, since all we know is that she overpowered vegettos base, forcing him to go ssj against her.

now... neither

22.500.000.000.000.000

nor

1.125.000.000.000.000.000

can compare to

25.885.268.824.542.200.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000


if you want, i can try calculating the super namek with (A+B)+static boost of around 900.000 for all the 108 nameks. i think ill do that now.

now with every namek (other than nail) only having 1 power (which is silly) and the fusion giving (a+b)+900.000

we get :96.342.107 that guy cant even beat final form freeza. not even talking about cell and buu. or DBM Broly (since that Broly likely existed in most universes).

i think the multiplier for the fusion is more likely. but its also evident that salagir as a writer has not spent his time thinking up power levels but actually goes the toriyama route of "i do it the way i need it in the story to make it interesting" instead of "there are rules for all things that happen in the manga".



what do you think of my huge wall of text?

ugh...i hate math. but very interesting.

heh.. i kinda expected you to say "thats silly! bra is stronger!"

alright. U NOOB BRA IS TEH SHIT! SCREW SUPER NAMEK! UR WRONG! lol im kidding. i still reckon she can fight equally with super namek at least for a while.

in DBM, i agree.

by my math, which i would use if i were salagir (because i like things making sense as opposed to "i turn it this way so it fits my story"), the super namek would outclass all of the fighters present.

or not have so many nameks in him. he could be the result of kamicollo(nameless namek) staying with his race instead of going to earth.

he fused with nail and guru. also some other warrior nameks. that way he was strong enough to beat freeza. and maybe even the other baddies.

but salagir chose the namek being all nameks and as such lowered the potency of the fusion to nearly nothing at all, which contradicts DBZ greatly.

but its his choice

interesting math there syrias.
If thats correct then he could beat both vegetto and zen buu without much problem.

he might be greatly supressing his power.
he didn't seem shocked by bra powering up. but did look abit shocked when gohan powerd up.
but then when broly was on his rampage when he just woke up, the namek calmly blocked one of the many ki balls (granted so did many others)

well bra wasnt anywhere near her full power imo. she was probably only powering up in rage just enough to be able to beat bojack. of course she was stopped but no one seemed worried she was gonna die vs bojack. but my point is, her supressed ssj1 is obviously less than mystic gohan and therefore wouldnt shock super namek. or it did and salagir left the reactions unshown for suspense (thats pushing it)

that doesn't make sense
she powers up in rage but still supresses herself? doesn't seem like rage then

Oh s**t
That is one long post, Syrias With a lot of math in it

But I think it makes sense. We know that Super Namek has to be stronger than Gotenks SSj. Gotenks SSj fought Buu (fat) and couldn't defeat him IIRC. So if Super Namek fought only Buu (fat) then depending on how easily he defeated him, Super Namek is at least stronger than Gotenks SSj

Hope this makes sense. Oh well ...

i think the super namek was strong enough to defeat super buu.
if he continued training he would be strong enough to compete with current vegetto, zen buu & broly

*taps chin* I don't feel its really necessary to specify that it's just my personal speculation, but. My numbers show about the following:

Goku: 1
Bra: 4.5-5.5
Vegetto: 10

Which would give:

SSj3 Goku: 400
(Min)SSj2 Bra: 450
SSj Vegetto: 500
(Max)SSj2 Bra: 550
SSj2 Vegetto: 1,000

Even if Bra's power is the maximum of the range I predict, that still leaves Vegetto probably able to handle her without needing to use SSj2, but with it starting to be close.

The reason I have the Vegetto / Goku power gap so much lower here than in the Buu saga is because I believe Goku and Vegeta's rivalry actually pushes them to achieve much more than they would without it. Vegetto doesn't really have that...so.

Your free to agree or disagree, like I said, these are just my personal estimates. I have -nothing- that I feel comfortable using to even come up with even a wild estimated guess, but if I'm just putting out a wild Guess I'd throw him between Max guess Bra and SSj2 Vegetto. I've got nothing to back that up though, its pure speculation.