[Buu Saga] Who is the stronger: GokuSSJ3, Mystic Gohan or GotenksSSJ3?

Oh, right. Forgot about that. Then yeah, guess Goku can't make it, even if he was just power up to SSJ3.

Mystic Gohan nuff said....

i know it's a anime only happening but goku ssj3 could barely defend himself against gotenksbuu.

earlier he also admitted that he woudn't stand a chance against super buu (no one absorb)

gotenks ssj3 was equal to super buu. but his inexpierence and his own stupidity and arrogance made him waste the 5 - 10 minutes of fusion time as ssj3 he had.

mystic gohan dominated super buu, buu coudn't even touch him.

then buu absorbs gotenks and piccolo. and he seems pretty equal to gohan, but slowely gaining an advantage. then he starts playing mind tricks on gohan, using piccolo's mind. and he starts beating the crap out of gohan.

goku arives, and after a short while the gotenks fusion stops and buu changes to a piccolobuu and goku tells gohan that buu is now much weaker and that he can beat him now. of course then buu absorbs gohan.

during the buu saga gotenks > goku
at the end of dbz goku > gotenks

buu saga: mystic gohan > ssj3 gotenks > ssj3 goku
end of dbz: goku ssj3 > mystic gohan > gotenks ssj3 (both gohan, goten and trunks stopped training. gohan became a scholar and family man. goten and trunks became lazy)

Docter KillJoy wrote:
during the buu saga gotenks > goku
at the end of dbz goku > gotenks

buu saga: mystic gohan > ssj3 gotenks > ssj3 goku
end of dbz: goku ssj3 > mystic gohan > gotenks ssj3 (both gohan, goten and trunks stopped training. gohan became a scholar and family man. goten and trunks became lazy)

My thoughts exactly. Of course, It would be interesting to see how much stronger SSJ3 Gotenks is in U18 and U16, if he did get stronger at all.

goten and trunks are lazy bastards...so no.

I'd a argue yes. I'd imagine that, even if they don't train hardcore, they still do -some- training. Plus as they get older, there would be some natural growth.

They won't be leaps and bounds, but they will be noticeable improved power wise...even if their technique still sucks. ^_^

*taps chin* If I had to make a wager on Gotenks relative strength, and I've had to as a fic writer, I would say that Gotenks is approximately 35-50% stronger than Goku. I'd Also wager that Buu is about 10-15% weaker than Gotenks, and that it was his regeneration that was allowing him to keep up. That said...

Goten: .1
Trunks: .115
Vegeta: .92
Goku: 1
Gotenks: 1.25
SSj Goten: 5
SSj Trunks: 5.75
Piccolo: 20 (Complete guess here, to be honest)
Kabito: 20
Vegeto(base): 30
Supreme Kai: 55 (He didn't seem actually freaked out until he saw SSj2 Goku)
SSj2 Vegeta: 92
Majin Vegeta: 100 (Majin was originally going to put Piccolo on par with SSj2 Goku, meaning that its effects were dramatically changed from the original design to work with Vegeta...though that original boost level explains how he held his own against Buu for awhile...instead I'm going with explanation that Buu was groggy...seeing as even fat buu is in the same league as SSj3 Goku who is 4x as powerful as Majin Vegeta)
SSj2 Goku: 100
Fat Buu: 350 (Effective. he had the same "power" there, but more of it was suppressed than in Super Buu)
SSj3 Goku: 400
Super Buu: 450
Kabito Kai(Min guess): 475
SSj3 Gotenks: 500
Kid Buu: 600 (Ish. I'd wager Gohan was a little stronger...But Buus regeneration and sadistic nature would have still won over him)
"Mystic" Gohan: 650
Gotenks Buu: 850
Gohan Buu: 1150
SSj Vegeto: 1500

(Few years later, Bra's birth)

Goten: .6
Trunks; .65
Gotenks: 9
Vegeta: 10
Goku: 10.16
Bra: 25
Vegeto: 250
"Mystic" Gohan: 4000

(End of Z, The Uub Tourney)

Goten: 4.5
Trunks; 5
Pan(min): 20
Pan(max): 50
Gotenks: 67
Vegeta: 335
Goku: 350
Bra: 1000
Vegeto: 5000
"Mystic" Gohan: 35000

Now, with Gohan, Goten and Trunks, I -am- assuming none of them outright stopped training, they just slacked...a lot. Which is why their really lagging behind on power without actually growing overly stagnant. If you believe they didn't grow at all, just check with their Buu saga numbers. ^_^

These are -rough- calculations, but I think their in about the right ball park all things considered.

Our appreciations are pretty close, here is mine, tell me what you think about it.

We assume that "1" is the strength of base Goku.

So it is:

Goku: 1
Goku SSJ: 50
Goku SSJ2: 100
Goku SSJ3: 400 (at full power when he was dead)

We will assume that Goku SJ3 = Vegeta SSJ3 = Gotenks SSJ3.
Gohan is a little stronger than Gotenks SSJ3 ( http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/Dragon-Ball-Z/unknown/304/7 ) so I will tell he is 450.

Now vegetto. For me the fusion makes base Vegetto equal to SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta. So:

Vegetto: 50
Vegetto SSJ: 2 500
Vegetto SSJ2: 5 000
Vegetto SSJ3: 20 000

And if the fusion makes base fusion equal to SSJ, we can tell that Base Gotenks = SSJ Goten or SSJ Trunks. Thus SSJ Goten or Trunks is equal to Base Goku or Vegeta. I think that it is totally possible.

Then we know that Goku SSJ3 can beat Fat Buu. So we can suppose that Fat Buu = 300 (I think Goku SSJ3 could have beat him easily if he wanted to).
And Super Buu = 350 (because Gotenks SSJ3 (and Gohan) beat him easily).
Once Gotenks absorbed, we assume that the power just add and then double: Gotenks Buu is (300 from Buu + 400 for Gotenks) X 2 = 1400.
So Gohan Buu: 1500 (because Gohan is a bit stronger than Gotenks SSJ3, so (300+450)X2 = 1500).

So SSJ Vegetto (2 500) can beat without trouble Gohan Buu (1 500).

Yeah. we have some differences on assuming where particular people lie, and, for example, I concider Goten/Trunks and Goku/Vegeta to have gotten different multipliers from fusion...weather its because its Potara or simply because different people fuse differently...probably both. Also, I consider Buu's absorption -strictly- additive and base some of my numbers around that.

I'm going to go ahead and update with my estimate on Bra...at least the one from my fic, whom I hope is close to power to the DBM one if my estimates work out.

Also, I consider Buu's absorption -strictly- additive and base some of my numbers around that.

In Dragon Ball, it could be OK.

But in Multiverse, it would mean that ultimate Buu is very weak (probably just as powerful as SSJ Vegetto).

Not strictly true. There's probably trillions of life forms in the universe, and even if Buu only thought 10% were worth absorbing, that's still godly amounts of power...not to mention special abilities, mental power, ect ect.

Energy / power isn't infinite. Given enough time and the inclination to do so, Buu could damned well absorb every last shred of Ki in the reincarnation cycle.

Leon wrote:


(Few years later, Bra's birth)

Goten: .6
Trunks; .65
Gotenks: 9
Vegeta: 10
Goku: 10.16
Bra: 25
Vegeto: 250
"Mystic" Gohan: 4000

(End of Z, The Uub Tourney)

Goten: 4.5
Trunks; 5
Pan(min): 20
Pan(max): 50
Gotenks: 67
Vegeta: 335
Goku: 350
Bra: 1000
Vegeto: 5000
"Mystic" Gohan: 35000

Now, with Gohan, Goten and Trunks, I -am- assuming none of them outright stopped training, they just slacked...a lot. Which is why their really lagging behind on power without actually growing overly stagnant. If you believe they didn't grow at all, just check with their Buu saga numbers. ^_^

These are -rough- calculations, but I think their in about the right ball park all things considered.

wait you give vegeto 250 but gohan 4000? wth

and bra as a child already stronger then most of the others? if this is about universe 16....everyone realy seems to overhype and overpower her

uh. Yeah. If Gohan's growing at all, Max Power Gohan > Base Vegeto. If you bothered to check SSj Vegeto completely and utterly fucks Gohan up...which is saying a -lot- because "Mystic" is a larger boost than SSj3.

Also. You'd have to take that up with Toriyama. Demi-Saiya-jins have their strength determined by the strength of their parents at the time of their conception. Gohan was born with a power -greater- than Goku's. Goten and Trunks were both born with even -moar- massive powers. Bra, as the child of the single most powerful character by leaps and bounds above anyone else in the history of DBZ, ever, would be no exception.

Er, no, Gohan's power did not rise at all in DBM. Salagir confirmed that both U18 and U16 Gohan have the same power level as they did in the Buu Saga. They didn't train at all in the past 20 years. The "Natural Growth" does not apply to Gohan since his max potential has been unlocked.

As for Goten and Trunks, either they really didn't train in the past 20 years, and just want to have fun in the tournament, or they have been training, and want to show their moves to everyone.

If that's the case, Goku could beat him with Kaioken...

well, unless Salagir is using a less rapid speed of growth between Buu and Multiverse than Cell and Buu

and bra as a child already stronger then most of the others? if this is about universe 16....everyone realy seems to overhype and overpower her

cos shes awesome and like leon says, her father is the most powerful being in dbz. naturally she surpasses even gohan easily.

Well, I don't have Bra stronger than Gohan until she hits SSj2.

In my fic I wasn't comfortable with Gohan literally doing no training, so he's able to match her SSj2 a year after she hits it. After that though...

Point is, you have some one -exceptionally- strong having a kid that even inherits a fraction of that power...and she also inherited the will of fighting and training, which isn't true of the other half breeds.

I went ahead and calculated Gohan's power up had he trained from birth like Bra. Bra has an advantage in being born with retarded power, but even then I'm showing Gohan only being a little behind her at the start of multiverse.

gohan shouldnt train. he hates fighting and always has. why train when you have videl and pan to provide for and a job to maintain? and no that job isnt protecting the earth. thats vegetto's job. to train in peace is to make gohan out of character. and by the info in the actual comic, bra is implied to have surpassed gohan in ssj2 rather easily. after all, she trained for 10 years. gohan for 0.

Mmm. I had Bra hit SSj2 at...5-6, so that's when she passed him. By multiverse, her SSj is a fair part stronger by itself.