Vegetas new Form?

Dear god lol, some people... I said "Look a like" not Kaioken itself, geez...

dw rage i got that too. someone i think ssjgotenks was like "no you noob he doesnt have kaioken".
oh no it was about pikkon. i said pikkon used a kaioken like technique to beat up super perfect cell.

so if vegeta knows of a technique like kaioken.... he might have learned it by now and trained it.

hm... but with the whole super gravity chamber and all.... hm... might all boil down to him having a base as strong as super saiyan 1 goku from u18. the current one.

his comment about gohan like only meant "power without transforming" anyway.... hm...

cant wait to see it

I still don't understand why people assume Vegeta would get away with training so much to the point that his base would be as strong as U18 SSJ1 Goku. How would Goku let that go unnoticed? He trains just as much as Vegeta, and probably better enough to master SSJ3 so the power drain would not work on him. I'm pretty sure if the RoSaT was given no restriction now, Goku would be one of the first to know, or use it first.

The most likely explanation is that Vegeta would have to master SSJ3 as well, or use the extra Kaioken-like boost. But I thought the power up he was telling Goku that was "like Kaioken" was just the Oozaru form...Of course, I forget a bit on what was said during that saga. >.<

His base isn't that much stronger than Goku.

It is a -little- stronger though. I don't remember when it takes place, but theres a spar between Vegeta / Goku in the novel at SSj2, and Vegeta is slowly winning.

So Vegeta's base is probably 3-5% stronger.

Watch Salagir surprise us all with, instead of a transformation, Vegeta developing a technique that forcibly cancels transformations.

Personaly I believe he will have MSSJ2. Mastered (Full Power) Super Saiyan 2.

Vegeta said that SSJ3's power drain was too much. I think he has mastered the state of SSJ2. It's similar to the cell saga, before SSJ2 was heard of, when Trunks said that Gohan and Goku would use less energy when they transformed, then Vegeta said that Trunks was missing the point and they didn't need to transform.

Anyway, if Vegeta can hold his own against Goku SSJ3 for the length of time it takes Goku to run out of energy, then he has a chance of beating him. I think Goku and Vegeta will have a similar ammount of energy, so therefore, if Goku uses a lot of it to transform, Goku will be stronger, but Vegeta will have more energy, having used less, since he doesnt transform into SSJ3, then if he can 'evade' Goku until Vegeta has a significant energy advantage, then Final Flash him, with all he has, he may have a chance at winning. All Vegeta would need to do is withstand Goku while wasting as little energy as possible.

Then again I could (and likely) be wrong. Knowing Salagir, anything can happen.

The problem with that is that SSJ3 is roughly four times stronger than SSJ2. I don't think Vegeta could last that long with SSJ2 alone. He needs some way of protecting himself against SSJ3 during the time it takes for it to burn out.

a strong enough final flash to take out goku ssj3. would take him a long time to charge. goku woudn't stand in place for over 10 minutes just to give vegeta a shot

mastering ssj2 is great and all. but ssj3 is still stronger.

While I follow the MSSJ2 and even his intent to raise his base higher than Goku's [I would in my fanon], the only thing he has over Goku [in terms of developing a better SSJ3 form] is his knowledge of sayajin physiology.

he could try boosting his defenses to rope a dope Goku however...
1. Goku is not likely to use SSJ3 unless Vegeta's SSJ2 is significantly better than his [so needs MSSJ2 and better base PL]
2. Unless there is a way for Vegeta to deal with the ~4x increase in power with boosted strength and speed, Goku could end it very quickly [so needs a defensive boost, and speed boost to counter]
3. If Goku is low on energy he could go back down to SSJ2 [stall?] or try a trump card attack [dragon fist] before he looses SSJ3 all together. [a tired SSJ2 Goku looses to a SSJ2 Vegeta Final Flash... with trained quick charge]

If Vegeta develops... Vegetto's ki barrier it could provide a good defensive boost... but enough?

also... what could Goku develop during the jump from Buu saga to now and how would vegeta compete with that after closing the gap?

From what people have said about the novel, and from what I've seen so far, I don't think Goku has anything spectacularly new.

The novel says that Goku was trying to master SSJ3, which is what caused Vegeta to say, "You are a retard." So we can pretty much expect a more mastered version of SSJ3 that would be similar to the SSJ3 Goku used while dead. In other words, less energy drain in the transformation and in the form. However, due to all the constraints on SSJ3, I highly doubt that one can ever truly use SSJ3 to its full potential in the mortal realm.

Another little bit of evidence comes when Broly is thawed and charges at Goku, who then powers right up to SSJ3. Goku would've been able to sense how terribly strong Broly was, so it would be the obvious choice to power up to full in order to take the onslaught, which is why he went SSJ3 and not SSJ1 or 2. The point is, he went right to SSJ3, which points to the fact that it is his highest powered form.

As for attacks, who knows? Goku really hasn't seemed too creative in terms of techniques. In fact, the only (?) moves that he's created on his own have been 1. Dragon/Oozaru fist and 2. instant kamehameha, or at least those are the only ones I can think of. I think he just trained to get stronger in base and SSJ3.

if Vegeta doesn't have to contend with bold new moves from Goku, I see Vegeta working on...

Final Flash: Potentially greater than a kamehameha from a user with comparable PL. It's only weakness is its charge time. Vegeta seems to have the best charge up of the sayajins though because of it. If "master" I could see a quick charge of Final Flash result in an instant power down from the applicable SSJ level and directing said energies into a truly Final Flash. I mean if he has to follow up that attack it wouldn't be very final anyway.

SSJ??: SSJ2 seems to be the current highest natural transformation, seeing as how Goku reached SSJ1 and Gohan reached SSJ2... we still don't know how Goku actually reached SJ3 but we see it has it's flaws. Perhaps Vegeta will develop a 3rd form, if not at least master SSJ2.

Base: From the fr.novel it seems Vegeta's base really does exceed Goku's. I would be surprised if he ever got more than a 10% gain over the lead character. However, I always liked the idea that base Goku only has reflexes, endurance, and stamina over base Vegeta [in my fanon anyway]; I kinda think Salagir follows this to some degree.

I thought it was believed that Vegeta's base was usually stronger than Goku's? This was seen in the huge first fight between them, as well as the beginning of the Android Saga. Then Vegeta just went below Goku due to Goku probably training more in Other World. I don't really see Vegeta's base outclassing Goku's seeing as they both trained for 20 years in the same area.

Actually, didn't Vegeta accept that Goku was and always be stronger than him? He seemed pretty lax near the end of Z...who really knows what went on with Vegeta in the extra 10 years.

If SSJ truly works with power multipliers, then base Goku > base Vegeta due to SSJ2 Goku > non-majin SSj2 Vegeta.

I am not entirely convinced that SSJ's work with discrete multipliers (e.g. 50x), but they're a good frame of reference when dealing with power.

Buster wrote:As for attacks, who knows? Goku really hasn't seemed too creative in terms of techniques. In fact, the only (?) moves that he's created on his own have been 1. Dragon/Oozaru fist and 2. instant kamehameha, or at least those are the only ones I can think of. I think he just trained to get stronger in base and SSJ3.

You're missing all the other Kamehameha variations.

1. Kamehameha punch.
2. Kamehameha that can alter its direction.
3. Kamehameha from feet.
4. Super Kamehameha.
5. Remote controlled Kamehameha.

Also, you've missed Goku's habit of copying other people's techniques and one upping them from Dragonball.
1. Triple afterimage.
2. Quadruple afterimage.
3. Crazy monkey fighting style.
4. Six-armed fighting style.
5. Solar flare that doesn't turn off after the initial flash.

OK, point, but they're all essentially just variations of techniques that he's learned/copied from others. At any rate, he hasn't developed a 100% original technique.

Besides, he probably hasn't had a lot of time to think of any amazing new moves since he's been busy training Uub and working on SSJ3 mastery.

The point is that the ball is in Vegeta's court to do something creative either technique-wise or transformation-wise. The popular idea is MSSJ2 or some variation of it, which, IMO, is the most likely. Forcibly canceling out another person's transformation won't work (already said Goku > Vegeta in base), and learning kaioken or getting a Guru/Kai unlock is completely out of the question. Vegeta does not get help from others. Sure, Vegeta is one of the good guys now, but when it comes to beating Kakarotto, his pride is still there.

Vegeta intentionally getting Babidi to using the Majin Seal on him to close the gap between him and Goku back in the Buu Saga pretty much kills the whole "too proud to get help" theory.

Also, I'm pretty sure that it's been said that Vegeta > Goku in base. In DBM, at least.

i still think the theory that he just bribed old kai with nude pics of bulma to have him unlock his potential is valid

Docter KillJoy wrote:i still think the theory that he just bribed old kai with nude pics of bulma to have him unlock his potential is valid

That may be a good option for Vegeta. After everyone needed to powerup to not get hurt by SSJ2 Vegetto and LSSJ Broly's huge attacks, Vegeta didn't seem to be powered up, though Goku was (page 216). But Vegeta may have just quickly powered up to SSJ then quickly went back seeing as it wasn't needed anymore.

Aye. The only real problem with the theory is how he managed to get into contact with the old kai, but that could easily be solved with the dragonballs.

But it's difficult not to be discovered when you're using the Dragonballs

old kai can communicate with telepathy

vegeta could have asked dende or old kai directly with using his mind

The problem is that the Old Kai is dead, so he can't actually leave the afterlife. Vegeta would have to find a way to get there himself. Goku was able to get there via teleport, but Vegeta can't do that. Maybe he asked Kibitoshin to take him there?

Vegeta -didn't- get a boost from Old Kai.

He basically said "That's just one way of doing it" Or "One path" might be a more accurate translation.

Wait, so now, apparently, Salagir is putting a cap on Saiyans? I really hope he isn't going against what Dragonball is all about...especially when Goku at the end of Z said they'll keep on getting stronger and stronger...