Specials

Ussj Future Trunks wrote:actually im not. i just dislike what you like. is that such a problem?

look, the trunks special sucked but not because it had no action. it had potential for other things. also there are episodes full of dialogue and drama but you are thinking dbz is shallow. for example, entire episodes are dedicated to vegetas emotions, or driving lesson comedy. or filler flashbacks. all those episodes in the 10 day wait. no action, just tension, humour and developments. gohan's training episodes. like the robot episode. no action, just gohan growing as a character. salagir has potential to grow beyond the stereotype your trying to set. how about the whole saiyaman arc? not really any real fights, but its character and humour. gt a hero's legacy. no real action but the drama is there and quite well done imo. how about trunks's time? its not about fighting the androids. its about life in a world where your scared and running away all the time from two unstoppable monsters.

am i getting the point across yet?

*facepalm* as i said before, comedic relief and such is fine and part of dbz. making family drama the main focus is not. also you dont have get any point across. i know what you want. i just dont want it and i try to explain to you what i dislike about it. you can not close your eyes and make DBZ something it is not. DBZ IS shallow. its a show meant for entertainment based on fighting progresively stronger bad guys. its not meant as a social study on people having their loved ones die or something.

of course it has character development. thats what i mean by coherent story. but most of the emotions in the series either directly or indirectly relate to the main focus of the show, which is FIGHTING. i love DBZ, otherwise i wouldnt be here. but still i can see its a shallow show. youre glorifying the trunks special far too much. it just shows (with strong emotions, thats true) gohan fighting in futility and trunks witnessing his death. nothing more. it does not go indepth on how it is to live in the post apocalyptic world. its just character development for future trunks. nothing more. for any more than that its far to short and shallow. but to me, it still did not suck at all.

so no dbm doesnt have to be just fights.

yes it does. thats the whole premise of it being the "fights, fans always dreamed about". of course it willl have comedic relief and emotional pull. it already has those with pan dying or dabura NOT dying. but its main focus is still just the fighting.

the character interactions should be just as important. the fans are fickle lol. they complain about too long fights. they complain about drama (pan's death. tell me that wasnt sad and dramatic and added to the story.) and long winded dialogue. they complain some more when they want the next fight to be announced. they complain that its all fights and no story. what the hell do you people want? thats what salagir must overcome. he seems like a storyteller as well as a fight writer. the specials shouldnt be about the fights imo. we know who wins. what im interested in is the characters and how everything came to be how it is in dbm.

see, here we agree somewhat. you just overdo it in your thinking that the characters are actually unique and special. look at any kind of shonen and you find your vegeta, gohan and all those personalities in there. DBZ is not some sacred special thing. still, the character is important. but on the other hand, salagir already stated "u16 people accepted vegetto completely." so we already know how their development turns out. how is it now that you value character over the fights, if we already know the outcome for both? makes noe sense

in this vein, u16 offers something for those wanting more than just fights. humour. drama. character interaction. dbz style of course. also maybe an intense spar between vegetto and bra to satisfy fans like you.

the thing is, im not that interested in the non serious fights which mean nothing. and i dont want to read a depressing story about chichi needing years to accept goku not coming back ever. sad stuff in DBZ always was handled cheaply in a throwaway manner. ohohoh were all so sad, oh goku wins/is back. all is happy again and we never talk about the dark times. future trunks totally loving u18 and never ever thinking about his poor mother all alone in his own time. yay for super well done drama. drama is just not dbz. and as such ich should not be DBM. a little on the side, for filler, sure. but not as a main focus.

what about minor guys like the villains in the jump special? aka or whatever?

i assumed trunks actually saying his presence causing reality to shift explained 19 and 16. if cell existed then why wasnt 19 finished and sent out before 17 and 18 like in the normal timeline?

again, dbz canon has nothing happening after buu and as such there is nothing for u16 to happen. #19 was killed by vegeta in both time lines. thats why trunks never saw him. 18 and 17 beat all the others and then went after the survivors gohan and trunks later on. thats how it happenend. trunks alters the timelines future, not the present.

isnt it narrow minded to think that u16 villains MUST show up in other universes? do we know they didnt? i just think vegetto had a butterfly effect a little bigger than buu/cell/frieza winning. it would be cool and interesting. theres no real way of knowing his presence doesnt spawn new enemies.

no its not narrow minded. its just illogical to assume that vegetto somehow conjures up new bigger enemies for no reason. it being cool and interesting is not enough to justify it. goku once thought he was the reason evil came to earth and so he opted to stay dead. years later dabura babidi and buu came, proving him wrong. stuff just happens and there is no butterfly effect, since that only concerns time travel. trunks created a sort of butterfly effect but only in causing a new timeline. butterfly effect and alternate timelines actually cancel each other out. since buterfly effect has only one timeline that is effected by the b effect. back and forth. like the movie . if u16 has new villains, they have the have shown up in other universes as well. since all universes had the same baddies. only the big change often resulted in some of them either being weaker or not being there at all. in no case has the big change created new villains in an universe that is otherwise unchanged. it simply does not work out to include u16 exclusive baddies, unless vegetto specifically wished for them. he is the new supreme kai of his universe after all (salagir said something to that effect). and i dont think thats something he would do. he isnt that reckless.

lol its dbz. for all we know the villain that shows up only wants to fight vegetto (so strong he bends reality maybe). and in u18 there is no vegetto so why why this guy come to earth? maybe zen buu fought this guy. maybe he showed up everywhere but u18 because something happened in u18 that prevents his existence. like salagir says. one big change. i dont know. just throwing that out there.

one big change means there is ONLY one big change. nothing more. just that one change and the universe unfolding from that change. u16 big change is vegetto. i dont see how vegetto being there could result in a strong foe. and other universes cant contain that foe who just never comes to earth, since the varga would seek out that guy first in ALL universes, if he can rival vegetto. its that simple.

sorry if im being a stubborn asshole.

hey if youre an stubborn asshole, im one too nothing wrong with standing your ground. thats something i learned from DBZ. standing your ground is never wrong.

its your call, shall we continue this or just agree to disagree? we could shift to discussing ideas on what u13 should consist of in its special

Rage wrote:Honestly I want to see the special about the nanotech guys.

Docter KillJoy wrote:i have to agree with syrias.

Buster wrote:See, here's the thing. I feel like some of the specials are worthwhile in terms of background information to some of the characters, and others seem mainly useless to us Z-educated readers.
Examples:
Trunks' special was good background on a what was a major character that we haven't seen in many, many years. IMO, what happened in Trunks' future timeline would be very interesting. Already, we saw the revival of 16, and I feel that there's *maybe* more that wasn't even touched upon (perhaps Buu? Although I guess that's unlikely given what he said about rebuilding Earth...). The drawing may have been pretty obtuse (check out those arms!), but I was glad to see what happened to one of my favorite characters.
Broly specials are the opposite. We see characters and outcomes that we already know, and nothing overall is added to the depth of the multiverse. We've all seen the movies, and we know what happened. These specials just seem to beat it into the ground ("yeah, Broly's pretty strong, isn't he?"). To the plot of DBM, it adds nothing, and I think it might be a good assumption that Broly's time in the comic has come to a close. It's as Geno said in the comments, Broly's a weak plot device.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would like to see more of some of the universes backgrounds (like the Super Saiyans and maybe the Super Namek... not U16 though), but stay away from the bread and potatoes of Z that we already know. Like, I would hate to see Bojack rehashed in a special... that would seem pretty pointless.

Meh, I'm ready for the mainstream story to pick up again.

the Trunks one to be rather disappointing. It was pretty predictable from start to finish, had no fight scenes, and could have been thoroughly explained in a single page of dialogue.

Docter KillJoy wrote:
while broly waltz all over super saiyans.

and u16 bra isn't. she's as much a mary sue as broly is in db:m! just because you got wet dreams about her (just kidding ) doesn't mean everyone has to think she is awesome and continue using the same cheap reason for her power: hurr duurrr vegetto's daughter. she must be able to kick everyone's ass derp.

Docter KillJoy wrote:gohan was ssj2 in movie 10 also. i don't care if the sparks where missing.

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kat's group is interesting,there from bojacks universe. but they obviously hate them, why allowed them to live in the first place.
the tall bald one with the beard is also missing. but then again those 2 where the 2 weakest one's