How strong is Bra?

Yeah. My speculation is that she doesn't have SSj3, and he SSj2 is somewhere between 10% stronger and 10% weaker than Vegeto's SSj. Even if she's 10% stronger, Vegeto wouldn't need to SSj to beat her.

Now if she does have SSj3, shes either never used it against Vegeto...or her SSj3 is at the power I guess her SSj2 is...in which case shes only 25% what I estimate. >_>

ssj3 bra



as for u18 pan. i do believe she trained more then her gt counterpart.
u16 pan probaly got harder training though.

but she seemed to lack stamina, after 2 attacks she was already breathing heavily.
i think u18 pan will have better stamina

we dont really know. she WAS fighting bojack of all people. she had to try and finish him early and gave it everything she had.

but bojack was a shitty broly knock off his own crew was more interesting then he was

on that matter how old is pan supposed to be in dbm?

How strong is bra?
So far as shown she's probably weaker than Gohan but we still don't know her full power yet.
I like to think she's at around Gohan's power but i fill she's much stronger.

Docter KillJoy wrote:u16 pan probaly got harder training though.

Yes, I believe U18 Pan just wouldn't have enough people around to help her get as strong as U16 Pan.

Docter KillJoy wrote:but she seemed to lack stamina, after 2 attacks she was already breathing heavily.
i think u18 pan will have better stamina

I think not, U16 pan is young, SSJ probably takes a good amount of ki to preform & she was fighting Bojack someone who's at least as strong as perfect cell.
She doesn't seem as strong as gohan when he was her age.

Docter KillJoy wrote:how old is pan supposed to be in dbm?

if Ussj Future Trunks was right about Pan being 4 years old in the "End of Z then" Pan in DBM is 14 years old.

DBM is 10 years after the "End of Z".

i was about to comment on how small she is then, but then i remember everyone in dbz is small.

vegeta is 5'2 and goku is only 5'7

If Bra is able to reach SSJ3 as some of you think, I would at least expect U16 "training" Pan to have SSJ2. The way I see it, Bra and Pan are probably best buds due to them both being girls, both strong, and roughly the same age give or take 2-3 years. Obviously she doesn't have SSJ2 considering that... she died. I don't know, it seems like it should almost be a "Goten and Trunks" thing for them, where they're roughly the same, but Bra has the age advantage.

If someone can show me a possible concept of SSJ3 Bra, I may choose to believe that she can get SSJ3. But as Dr. Killjoy points out, it's probably going to look ridiculous.

And Pan isn't all that young for SSJ either. She definitely should not be getting that tired. Gohan was ~11, Goten <= 6 and Trunks <= 7 when they reached super saiyan. I think giving U18 Pan more stamina over her counterpart would be an interesting addition, just if anything to make U16 and U18 a bit more different. Maybe give some advantages to each universe.

remember vegeta in the novel saying ssj3 is the wrong way to power up? maybe bra found something like "ussj2" or something specific to her. maybe through intense training she has that specific powerup available. that way it wouldnt be too hard to design. i do think bra is insanely stronger than pan. she has a mystic pansy for a dad but bra must have gotten ssj with ease and only gotten stronger thanks to her potential as the first ever child of a fusion/student of a fusion.

Where is this novel? I've heard a couple people mention it already...

And I would have to agree with Vegeta. SSJ3 burns up power way too quickly to be of any real use, just look at Goku's SSJ3 fight against kid Buu. Besides, aesthetically, I think SSJ3 looks incredibly stupid. No eyebrows? Weird long hair? Wat? Wouldn't that long hair just really get in the way a hella lot? An improved SSJ2 would look a lot cooler (and SSJ2 is my fave of the SS transformations).

"Super" SSJ2 would be a great way for our U18 guys to counter the U16 juggernauts.

lol i think ssj3 looks badass and ssj2 is the worst. toriyama got lazy there. "i need the true ascension..just change the hair and add lightning so its super hard to tell the difference...genius!"

Buster wrote:Where is this novel? I've heard a couple people mention it already...

And I would have to agree with Vegeta. SSJ3 burns up power way too quickly to be of any real use, just look at Goku's SSJ3 fight against kid Buu. Besides, aesthetically, I think SSJ3 looks incredibly stupid. No eyebrows? Weird long hair? Wat? Wouldn't that long hair just really get in the way a hella lot? An improved SSJ2 would look a lot cooler (and SSJ2 is my fave of the SS transformations).

"Super" SSJ2 would be a great way for our U18 guys to counter the U16 juggernauts.

I've always kind of assumed that SSJ3 was essentially a Super SSJ2. Compare SSJ3 to Vegeta and Trunks's ascended forms. Both ascended SSJ and SSJ3 have a large power increase from and consume much more energy than the previous SSJ state. In fact, I'd almost compare it to Trunks's USSJ state, were it not for the the fact that SSJ3 doesn't give up speed.

Ussj Future Trunks wrote:lol i think ssj3 looks badass and ssj2 is the worst. toriyama got lazy there. "i need the true ascension..just change the hair and add lightning so its super hard to tell the difference...genius!"

Heh. I have to agree with you there. SSJ2 can be a real pain to tell apart from SSJ. That was never a problem with SSJ3. Or Vegeta's ascended form and Trunks's USSJ. I also think it's kind of boring how SSJ2 has no drawbacks over SSJ. It makes you wonder why anyone capable of SSJ2 ever uses SSJ to begin with.

So, essentially what're you're saying is that the SSJ3 that we've seen in the past isn't really the "true" SSJ3, but rather a modified SSJ2?

It's hard to say... SSJ3 has such drastic changes compared to SSJ2...

You guys have made me see the errors of my way, thinking that SSJ2 is the best. If I had to choose a favorite SSJ form, it would probably just be the rage induced first form of SSJ.

Yes, I am saying that. I think SSJ2 is just as flexible as SSJ was, and can be manipulated just like Vegeta and Trunks did with SSJ. And that that is what Goku did and assumed he'd found a new level, just like Trunks and Vegeta did. Of course, since he was dead when he discovered the transformation, the energy drain was significantly less noticeable, so it's easy to see how he could have made the mistake.

Edit: One more comparison of SSJ3 to Trunks and Vegeta's ascended forms: the longer hair. Trunks's USSJ and Vegeta's Super SSJ form both had longer hair than the regular SSJ form. Of course, it wasn't as much of a difference as was seen between SSJ2 and SSJ3, but the difference is still there.

the only one that had any change as a ssj2. was gohan as a kid.

vegeta looks the same
goku, barely any difference, only a few bits of hair go up also
gohan (teen/adult) barely any difference. reason why the whole did he use ssj2 against .... is brought up.


ssj3, sure the massive energy drain is a bitch. but the form is pure badass and power.
i personaly love the transformation in movie 12 more, then the transformation in the serie.

i think u16 bra, only has ssj at the moment. but is pretty close to unlocking ssj2. it would be interesting to see her use her own unique power up instead of a transformation.

i think the series one was more epic, with it tearing apart earth, everyones reactions, goku's stare and lines, the music especially. all that > movie 12. and schemmels scream imo was better against fat buu too.

without explaining the basis for this... here goes my fan spam

DBM Gohan Full Mystic = DBZ end of Buu Saga Gohan Full Mystic
70% Gohan Full Mystic > Bra SSJ1 [he can stand there and take it]
140% Gohan Full Mystic > Bra SSJ2

[DBM] Vegetto SSJ1 > [BuuSaga] Vegetto SSJ1 > Buuhan > 140% Gohan > Bra SSJ2

and for the sake of boardom... Fan BT4/RB2 Bra moveset!

BASE BRA
B1- Sayajin Soul [2 stock]
B1- IT [3 stock]
B2- Atomic Blast [2 ki; looks like Majin Vegeta's]
B2- IT Big Bang [4 ki; AKA: dodge this! looks like Majin Vegeta's then... ]
UB- Final Flash [4 ki]

SSJ1 BRA
B1- Sayajin Soul [2 stock]
B1- Full Power [3 stock]
B2- Big bang attack [3 ki; looks like normal Vegeta's]
B2- Dont waste my time! [3 ki; see Vegeta vs Pui Pui; dodges x 3, into point blank Final Flash]
UB- Atomic Breaker [5 ki; alt of Majin Vegeta's Rush & Blast on Buu]

SSJ2 BRA
B1- IT [3 stock]
B1- I am The Princess! [3 stock; alt of "I am Super Vegeta"]
B2- Atomic Sword [3 ki; alt of Vegetto's spirit sword rush]
B2- Final Flash [4 ki bars; cost like scouter Vegeta's garlic gun]
UB- IT Big Bang Buster [5 ki; Finishing Buster followed by IT Big Bang Attack; also Majin-looking]

it seems she is strong enough to not just teleport back to the stadium like a weakling would. i think shes AT LEAST as strong as weakened ssj vegetto.

like i mentioned in the other thread. we have no proof yet that in his training against bra, even if he did use ssj against her that he also fought serious.
he probaly still held back a great amount.

Bra is as strong as her cupsize.

thats why i said weakened ssj not fp ssj killjoy

Just to get an idea of what your suggesting...

lets say Vegetto's base was... 20

Vegetto base: 20
Vegetto SSj1: 1000
Vegetto SSj2: 2000
Vegetto SSj3: 8000

Were would you put Bra?
For that matter how weak is a weakened SSj1 Vegetto?

Bra base: 6-8
Bra SSj1: 300-400
Bra SSj2: 600-800

I was thinking a base of 7 was pretty reasonable.

"it seems she is strong enough to not just teleport back to the stadium like a weakling would."
Out of the teleporters in the tournament... who is a weakling? the kaioshin's? I don't think anyone was remotely suggesting Bra was a weakling.

bra is strong enough to make plenty of sandwiches for buu

i hope you will stop this sexist garbage soon killjoy.

She needs to kick off her shoes and make me a fuckin sammich...can leave on the spandex though. ;-)

I'm thinking Vegeto and Bra are in a totally different league to Gohan, but he has fought Buu before, so he's good to take to this battle. Bra could have took the Super Namek with her, but he doesn't know what is going on, and wouldn't be as effective as Gohan, who knows what is going on and knows exactly what to do, so as little time is wasted as possible.

@ USSJ Future Trunks:

You seem to be one of the only ones that reconise how strong Bra actualy is.
Do you think Bra would be able to beat Buuhan or Buutenks?

Or would hercule beat her